OK, a while back awesome regular Spidey reader Andre revealed a hidden dark side… he isn’t a Forwood unicorn lover!
He made very valid, rational arguments about why he isn’t a fan of the potential Tyler/Caroline pairing on The Vampire Diaries, and prefers the Matt/Caroline relationship.
I’ll admit, The House Guest, the last episode of The Vampire Diaries before the recent hiatus, left me one hell of a bitter Tyler/Caroline shipper, and it was there for all to see in my Got Forwood recap. (I stand by every word that I wrote though).
I make jokes about Tyler/Caroline bringing rainbows and sparkles into my life. But don’t let the Forwood unicorn stuff fool you into thinking that I view this pair with rose coloured glasses. If anything, I have responded more strongly to the gritty nature of their pairing than the Matt/Caroline set up, which has followed the more traditional storybook first love break up/make up lather-rinse-repeat conventions.
So, why exactly aren’t Matt/Caroline deserving of being called a unicorn in Spidey world?
This is the first of a few
rants posts up my sleeve breaking down why the Caroline/Tyler pairing works infinitely better for me. Believe it or not, I have put actual thought into this beyond Trevino being hot. Shocking, I know. I’ll even talk about what works for me in terms of Matt and Matt/Caroline, as well as the shortcomings of the Tyler/Caroline relationship.
Trevino being hot is entirely acceptable reasoning for loving Tyler/Caroline though IMO 😉
I was struggling to find a good starting point, and decided that where we left off before hiatus is as good a place as any. Although I adored Candice Accola’s gorgeous voice in the karaoke scene, where Caroline serenades Matt in an attempt to win him back, the actual grand romantic gesture itself made me throw up in my mouth a little.
Whether she really should have felt like she needed to win him back in the first place is open for debate. On the one hand, Caroline had been acting weird towards Matt for weeks, sending conflicting signals like telling him she loves him but then running away, as a result of the upheaval being a baby vamp has caused in her life. On the other hand, although both Matt and Caro showed signs of unresolved feelings through loads of longing glances, they had been broken up for some time, because Matt dumped her… about a week after she almost died in a car crash over her acting neurotic and jealous. Now, admittedly, Caroline had deliberately played up her jealousy issues to get Matt to break up with her because she realised the danger she posed to him as a human in her early baby vamp transition period. It just still gets me that Matt was so willing to drop her for strange behaviour so briefly after she had almost been killed in a car accident; surely this experience warranted her being cut a little more slack?
But really, this scene just bugged the hell out of me because it embodies all that I hate most about the Matt/Caroline dynamic.
I am just gonna put it out there – I am deeply unimpressed by grand romantic gestures ( as opposed to acts of love, which I’ll get into a little later). Romantics at heart, please don’t take this as me being an utterly emotionless cynic! I just like my romance to come in a slightly different form.
Of course there is nothing wrong with making someone feel special, but I think that doing so in a low key way is far more meaningful. If you feel the need to orchestrate a public declaration of love, or are only won over by one of these, I would actually question whether your relationship is lacking in substance. Or if you need an audience to bear witness to your twu wuv in a really exhibitionist way, perhaps you are play acting at being in love and inhabiting a role that you are trying to convince yourself actually exists, or that you think society wants you to be part of (like the Golden Boy Football Player and Golden Girl Cheerleader having the ultimate romantic connection).
The Matt/Caroline relationship, for me, has been one grand collection of grand gestures (i.e. overly dramatic first kiss) and big speeches – there was a whirligig of them in season one, like after Caroline grabbed Matt’s hand possessively at a party in front of respective ex’s or the infamous double date where it was clear Matt was not really over his ex, who was one quarter of the part present, and the karaoke scene was prefaced with Caroline giving Matt a big ole speech too. Seriously, it feels like Matt/Caroline spend more time talking about why they should be together rather than actually being together!
The small moments that make a couple sing for me have been sorely lacking in Matt/Caro since their initial friendship.
If there were more moments between Matt/Caro where they bonded over a shared enjoyment of cheesy reality dance TV like in The Turning Point or painted signs for a town event together, rather than their conversations being an endless parade of conversations about why they should be together, I’d probably be shipping them hard, or in the very least could understand their appeal beyond being a photogenic couple.
As it stands, the way they have been written ever since hooking up in Unpleasantville, I get the impression that if they weren’t surrounded by so much “getting together, breaking up” drama all the time, they would realise they were actually BORED with one another. Heck, when hanging out like a normal couple, Caro in canon stated “I’m bored” and “let’s do something bachelor pad-dy”, which to me emphasised a physical rather than emotional or intellectual connection. I don’t mean intellectual as in chatting about academic topics; just a shared sense of fun and respect for one another’s opinions. And don’t get me wrong; a physical connection is important, but if it is the defining aspect of a relationship than I doubt it would last long.
Once coupled up, the best moment for me that the pair shared, when I really felt like there could really be something between the two of them, was when they were talking about his Mum before Caroline went on the ill-fated car trip that led her to discovering Vicki’s body. They talked like any ordinary supportive couple about an everyday problem, with Matt appreciating Caroline’s sentiment that “Maybe people can surprise you” (although I still feel like he felt she was only being cute rather than making a point he would take seriously). Such a shame that small moments like this have been so rare with them.
In contrast, Tyler and Caroline not only have a special connection forged through their shared experiences of being baby supes, but they have always seemed to “get” each other. Way back in the episode Haunted in season one, they shared conspiratorial glee about how Caro was going to get drunk until someone was hot enough to make out with – a tiny reference to them sharing the same spirit of fun.
300 Tyler just for you Gen!
Matt saw Caroline’s attempts to repair the breakdown in the Tyler/Matt friendship in late season one (admittedly a result of Tyler being a supreme douche) as interference, as seen in his nasty “give it a rest, Care” moment when she tried to convince him to chat to Tyler. No matter how mad he was at Tyler, there was no need to take it out on Caroline, in my opinion. Although Tyler was the one at fault in the friendship breakdown, I still think it was significant that he later revealed he recognised Caroline’s “interference” for what it was; an example of her goodness (“the girl’s got heart” comment in early season two was not out of the blue to me for that reason).
Caroline and Tyler also keep it real with each other. For example, Caroline called Tyler on his crap with his inadequate apology to Matt for kissing his Mum, and most amazingly, Tyler took this in his stride, at a time in his character arc when the smallest thing would set him off into a rage.
Caroline and Tyler perhaps found it easier to talk about things that matter (like in the “I get it” scene, where Tyler shows that he understands why Caroline had, at least temporarily, sacrificed her relationship with Matt) as they grew closer in season two because of thing that brought them together – the shared experience of being new baby supes. Yet I would argue that if they didn’t have the weight of the world on their shoulders with the were/vamp issues, I can’t imagine Caroline ever saying to Tyler that she is bored in his company, judging by the ease of their interactions before everything went to hell.
The supernatural issues catalysed their unlikely friendship, but I feel like if they had both remained human, they would still be far more compatible than Matt/Caroline ever were – it’s just that they probably never would have thought to explore a deep friendship with each other in the first place. I know a lot of people feel like Tyler expressed disdain for Caroline in season one and early season two, but I think it was more that he was concerned about losing Matt to a girl (“I need my boy single”).
Forwood haven’t really had any grand relationship moments; their big kiss moment was actually really just a pared back scene on a porch. They didn’t need the backdrop of a karaoke scene to make them seem epic; the kiss seemed epic in scale when I was watching it because THEY are together as a pairing.
But the thing is, I can easily become completely weak at the knees… by an ACT of love, rather than a big romantic gesture.
I was so very, very deeply moved by Caroline’s care for Tyler during the transformation scene, because this was an act of profound love for a friend, and what’s more was private. It didn’t need to be showcased to the world; indeed, no one even knows the specifics of what they went through together yet. I feel like Caroline hasn’t told the others all about what happened because it feels deeply personal; contrast this to her very public, and IMO rather empty, declaration of love to Matt in the karaoke scene. I usually find that if I need to overexplain how awesome a relationship it is, rather than just carrying the emotions within me, I am overcompensating for something that is lacking in that relationship.
Even if Caroline HAD shouted from the rooftops of the world about what happened with Tyler, the act of being there for someone so unequivocally, especially in shitty circumstances, is, for me at least, much more special than constructing a grand romantic moment. She could sing karaoke until she is blue in the face and I doubt I would be anything but unmoved and faintly nauseated, whereas the Tyler/Caroline transformation scenes made my Ice Eyes tear ducts function for once.
Now it just remains to be seen whether Tyler can give Caroline a reciprocal act of love in return. Anything less and any reunion between the two, especially a romantic one, would be hollow to me.
I for one will be hanging out to see whether their shared understanding of one another is enough to overcome being from warring species, trust issues and betrayals on both of their sides, through well-intentioned though ultimately damaging lies on Caroline’s part and as a result of confused inaction on Tyler’s.
(For the record, the reason why Damon’s “I love you” to Elena worked so well for me was that despite being a moment small in scale, lacking fireworks, it was made epic by it being his first real act of love towards Elena. The subtext of the scene, where he told Elena that he loved her but he didn’t deserve her like his brother did, before compelling her to forget his words, was about Damon deciding to give up pursuing her because he wanted to put his relationship with his brother and friendship with her first. Her happiness came first.)
March 27th, 2011 at 7:09 pm
Very well done Cherie. I applaud this post, because you said everything so beautifully. We have discussed this many times over and we always have similar opinions.
Even if Caroline HAD shouted from the rooftops of the world about what happened with Tyler, the act of being there for someone so unequivocally, especially in shitty cirscumstance, is, for me at least, much more special than constructing a grand romantic moment. She could sing karaoke until she is blue in the face and I doubt I would be anything but unmoved and faintly nauseated, whereas the Tyler/Caroline transformation scenes made my Ice Eyes tear ducts function for once.
Wonderfully put! That shared experience of Tyler’s first full moon I believe will always be profoundly significant one. I don’t think either one of them will ever share what happened that night with anyone else. It was a traumatizing situation for not only Tyler, but Caroline as well. As much pain that Tyler was forced to go through, Caroline had to stand by and watch helplessly; but just as Candice helped Trevino through those scenes with her words of encouragement, Caroline helped keep Tyler together with those same words. That night a bond was formed between them that I don’t think can ever be severed. Whether or not Tyler and Caroline can get past their differences and learn to forgive and trust each other again, they will always be forever connected by that night.
Brilliant break down Cherie. I was indifferent to M/C in season one, but now I see their relationship lacking any real substance. There is no basis for their relationship and no reason to continue pursuing it. I’m seeing it as a means to an end; T/C being that end. I think eventually Caroline will realize that she has stronger connection with Tyler than she will ever have with Matt. This all depends on the manner of his return of course. I do hope that Tyler’s first interactions are with Caroline. I think her immediate reaction will speak volumes. I’m wondering if she will greet him with a, “Where have you been?” or a “What do you want/what are you doing here?” I’m hoping for the former, primarily because it would shout concern for me. Also I want to see her immediate reaction to his return to make up for not seeing her reaction to the news of his departure. It better be good writers. 😉
March 31st, 2011 at 8:42 am
I definitely think that Tyler/Caroline have shown that the intensity of an experience can forge a bond as much as a long shared history can.
Under painful experiences like the transformation, where you would be stripped of all artifice, you also have the opportunity to see a person exactly as they are, and I think that Tyler/Caroline cemented feelings that had already been developing by totally and completely showing their true selves in a way that a crisis only can. Tyler saw Caroline’s bravery and kindness, and retrospect, after discovering the enormity of the risk she took, saw how meaningful her gesture was. I think that for Caroline, knowing that Tyler had triggered the werewolf curse was one thing, but actually seeing the physical manifestation of his darker side would have really brought home the dual identity he has been struggling with his whole life. After all, his latent werewolf gene was no doubt a factor in causing his aggression issues etc, and I bet that someone as thoughtful as Caroline would be viewing his actions in the past in a different light.
As far as I’m concerned, the only role Matt has to play is as a wedge between the inevitable sparkly reign of a Forwood unicorn 😉 Or, if the writers are smart, they’ll turn Matt into a semi-good, semi-tortured antagonist for Tyler and Caroline that really capitalises on the shared history of the trio. Matt doesn’t necessarily have to be a villain, but even as someone who really stands up for Team Human over his supe friends would be really powerful. Honestly, I don’t see people trying to kill the Salvatores on the Council, for example, as villains, but people coming from a different perspective to the supernatural community in Mystic Falls. I know I keep flogging this point, but I really feel strongly that the Salvatores et al are anti-heroes, not heroes.
Tyler’s return has the potential to be one of, if not THE, most powerful moment of the series for me, and I’m sure it is the same for you. I agree with you that while the producers subtly hinted at the impact of Tyler’s departure, by showing her determination to be truthful with Matt so that everything would turn out all right, obviously as compared to the situation with Tyler, they had better make up for the lack of a strong explicit reaction upon Tyler’s return, dammit! In fact, if their reunion moment is as emotive as I think it will be, holding off on Caroline’s reaction will be worth it 😉
March 27th, 2011 at 9:51 pm
Awesome post, as usual, Cherie! I absolutely agree with you about subtle demonstrations of love — through unadulterated giving and self-sacrifice — being more poignant and meaningful than grand and exotic gestures. There’s a reason that events like the Public Serenade, the last-minute race to the airport, the BIG Speech in front of a Large Crowd who “slow claps” at the end, are romantic comedy cliches. They exist, because society has come to see them as shorthands for True Love. But True Love, by its very definition, is not capable of being short-handed.
In fact, these “big finishes” are more likely evidence of uncertainty on the part of the screenwriter, as to whether he has successfully created a believeable relationship between his two main characters. He or she is not sure whether he has SHOWN the viewer that these two people are meant to be together. So, he decides to TELL YOU they are, instead.
Like you, I definitely feel like Matt’s and Caroline’s relationship has been more show, than tell, whereas Tyler’s and Caroline’s courtship lies within the world of subtle but meaningful glances, small gestures, intense chemistry, and acts of extreme unselfishness on the part of Caroline for Tyler . . . acts which I suspect will be performed in kind by Tyler in the coming episodes.
“I care, Tyler!” Caroline said to Tyler on her porch in the moments, before he kissed her.
But what Caroline did for Tyler, during that werewolf transformation was more than just caring. That was love. And when Tyler realized that, he HAD to kiss Caroline. Because he knew, without either of them saying so, that he loved her, and she loved him back.
As for Delena, you know me, the scene where Damon tells Elena he loves her in Rose is one of my ALL TIME favorite TVD scenes. It is just so simple, and poignant, and beautiful. That being said, I’m not entirely sure it was the FIRST time Damon showed love for Elena.
I would suggest that the first time true love was exhibited between Damon and Elena was in the Miss Mystic Falls episode . . . even if Damon, at the time, wasn’t quite aware that his feelings for Elena, were, in fact, love. When Damon stood in for Stefan at the pageant, he wasn’t just doing that for his brother, (who, at the time, he was still holding a pretty FIERCE 140 + year grudge against for the whole “Katherine / forcing him to turn” thing) he was also doing it for Elena. Damon knew how important it was for Elena to compete in the pageant for her mother’s sake. And he wasn’t about to let his bloodaholic brother’s lies and deceit mess that up for her.
Damon COULD have let Elena fail at the pageant, under the assumption that this seeming act of betrayal on Stefan’s part would drive her away from Stefan’s arms, and into Damon’s. But, instead, Damon chose to take the metaphorical High Road, even if it meant eventually relinguishing Elena to Stefan, after they helped him “get clean.” To me, that illustrates Delena love in its purest form, love that has been mirrored in small ways, many times throughout Late Season 1 and Early Season 2 of TVD.
Of course, that’s just my opinion. 🙂
March 31st, 2011 at 8:58 am
Aww thanks! As I was analysing Forwood, I kept on coming back to the Delena “I love you” scene, which I definitely see as being a real act of love. Damon’s sacrifice meant much more to me than if he had shouted from the rooftops of the world that he loved Elena. It was such an interesting scene because it had the show and tell elements to it – Damon explicitly told Elena how he felt, but then showed his love ironically by the action of erasing her memory of his words. A couple could never tell each other “I love you” and just intimate this through gestures, looks and smoochies, of course ;), and I would be satisfied. Hearing those words on occasion, if truly earned, is nice though, don’t get me wrong!
I definitely think that Caroline has put the most work into the relationship, and look forward to Tyler trying to mend bridges and atone by showing his love through some acts of extreme unselfishness, which I would be surprised if they didn’t haven’t. Having said that, I want the issue of Mason to be raised again when they are on better terms and really honoured, because I would hate for that to be swept under the carpet. What I like best about this pairing is that neither are entirely good or bad people, and even when they care for someone they can do acts that hurt one another deeply.
I adore your interpretation of the Miss Mystic Falls scene as an act of love so much. You are absolutely right! What strikes me about that scene is how pure Damon was; there was no snarkery, no Eye Thing (though eye sex!)… just sweet and innocent Damon as he was before Katherine entered his life. Out of all the characters on the show, I think he has the greatest capacity for deep and unconditional love. I would say it is his greatest strength, but also his Achilles heel, because his object of affection can take advantage of this.
March 29th, 2011 at 3:52 pm
Sorry that it took so long but there were internet-connection problems with the site yesterday.
Thank God you are fully back. I gotta admit after the last three articles I feared you might lose your edge. But here you are again giving me lots to write. 🙂
But one thing first:
I neither think that Caratt nor Forwood would actually last given the current info on them, no matter what, they just wouldn’t in my eyes. There is still the “vamps are immortal”-stuff as well as personality issues, neither pairing would be compatible in the long run. Sorry for all Forwood and Caratt fans, currently I can’t see any evidence that either pairing would last.
So, now to the important parts of my “comment” (can we still call them that? Sometimes it seems as though each of us writes whole articles):
I highly doubt that Caratt are seen as the “perfect” couple in the show or were intended as such by the writers. Based on the reactions they received when they actually walked to school together they are seen as a rather odd pairing. Matt’s image is probably better than Caroline’s but a “perfect” couple? Definitely not, if the writers really wanted them to appear like that they did a reeeaaaalllllly bad job.
One reason for that is that they both don’t fit the stereotypes of “Golden Boy Football Player and Golden Girl Cheerleader” apart from their looks. Neither are any of them “golden” in any way.
I mean the scars Matt carries around with him would be obvious to see, even if the observer is still a teen (or at least not totally shallow), just as Caroline’s intense desire to be liked and admired by everyone. In addition both come from broken homes and in such a “small” (by US-American standards) town, you can be sure that this is known. Sure there are people who will judge them solely by their own actions but these are usually the minority and I don’t think that the general population of Mystic Falls and around is much different than in the real world (although the school seems to be lacking faculty ;)).
I’m skeptical whether Matt is or was intended as the “golden boy”, considered what we have seen of his mother and heard of his father (according to Vicky he is not worth remembering) a huge part of the way Matt is acting might be due to fear of being hurt again (and in such a scenario being alone seems pretty appealing) and of not wanting to be like his parents (considering his mother it is highly unlikely that his father was an actual “good guy”). And I doubt such parenthood goes without its negative social impact. Like I said once, Matt is just as messed up as most of the other characters. His record is (as far as we know): dead sister, marooning father and slutty mother whom he had to kick out of the house.
In this way the main difference between him and Tyler is that he started much earlier with trying to make it better than his parents while Tyler seemingly had to be kicked into it. If that is his goal I might add, currently we know next to nothing about Tyler’s goals and intentions apart from that he wants to manage his new situation. (If I would be a writer I would make it the way that several werewolves together results in them being on a downward moral spiral ala the “beast within” comes out [beast in the way of a representation of all ones darkest desires, not another species]).
And I never saw Caroline as any sort of “golden girl”, that she isn’t one was evident from the start. Sure if someone observes her only very casually one might think that, but I believe that if you would ever spent more than a minute with such a person it would be obvious how insecure she is. Caroline clearly tried to be the Golden girl (remember her list of activities at the election?) – tried too much actually – but she was and is still very naïve in many things (like believing that her mother would simply accept her to be a vampire or the whole Matt fiasco). Her home is not as broken as Matt’s but still not one that you are given credit for by society. Caroline’s mother is the sheriff and her father is gay (still don’t get how such things are possible). So not exactly the typical background for a golden girl, don’t you think? She could be some sort of drama queen; I mean was there ever a reason given why she had such a bad relationship with her mother? Caroline was actually way more difficult than necessary in my eyes. *But then again were also never given a good explanation for the intense rivalry between Tyler and Jeremy, because as we both observed, once Vicky was out of the picture that changed pretty quickly.* She might very well be or have been a sort of joke around school. You know the ones you say behind someone’s back, and maybe it was only the status of Caroline’s mother that sort of “protected” her. No matter what a woman who legally owns a gun is pretty scary. 😀 Although, let’s say she is/was (what is she actually doing at school at the moment? What is any of the cast doing there?) the “Golden Girl Cheerleader”, wasn’t Elena some sort of that also once? If yes you could say that Matt went from Elena to “Elena”. Or maybe, if what you hope will come true, Caroline will go from Matt to “Matt”. 😀
I agree that Matt is still not completely over Elena, at least that would explain the way he looked at hear first in the House Guest and than going on stage after Elena seemingly gave her approval. Gosh, this is difficult to assess since we again lack background. Matt and Elena were seemingly first love, albeit it might have been deeper for Matt than for Elena. It might be that his relationship with Elena was partly motivated by belonging to a more functional family just as Tyler’s with Vicky might have been (the whole topic is a little head-scratcher). That doesn’t excuse his behavior of course but considered his background, his friendship with Matt might count more as a family relationship than with his parents so it can be expected that he might be “desperate” to strengthen that in a way he thinks is the right one (we both agreed that he is way immature for his age). Well at least it would, unless Tyler’s statement about Caroline being there for him more than anybody else in his life was true (if it was true his life would be really miserable). I know some people will hate me for it but so far she hasn’t really done much for him in my eyes. Yes she was there for him, but apart from that? What has she done? I just don’t get why there is such strong emphasis on it.
That Caroline was/is so possessive of Matt in season 1 was to be expected considered her “the guys she want never want her” and “it’s a competition speech” from the first episode/pilot, in addition to the “everyone always wants Elena”-topic. If that is correct, Matt might have been the first case where “wanting” and “being wanted” matched for her and did not turn out into an abusive relationship. Which might explain why she is so desperate for keeping him, we both know how teenagers usually are. In Tyler’s case they were both thrown into it by outside forces so I doubt how much of it was actually due to them personally.
Of course Caratt might have been intended as one of those rebound couples (or the writers had “gold fever” 😀 ), albeit I think that Caroline pushed herself into it. Remember how she interpreted much more into Matt’s behavior than was actually there in S01E09? Matt only started to have an actual interest in her when she let parts of her usually façade fall, which is definitely understandable considered the Caroline before that.
“If there were more moments … where they bonded over a shared enjoyment of cheesy reality dance TV … or painted signs for a town event together… I’d probably be shipping them hard, or in the very least could understand their appeal beyond being a photogenic couple. Such a shame that small moments like this have been so rare with them.”
That argument is understandable. However, I think part of why their relationship was given so little light (compared to the amount if time they were portrayed as a couple) and Tyler and Caroline’s so much (still not even close to couple in my eyes) is basically because Tyler was a more important part of the metaplot than Matt. After all despite what was said in Season 2 Caroline wouldn’t be necessary for the sacrifice, you could just go and make pretty much any random person out there into a vampire if you don’t have one at hand. And what was she really in season 1 after her status of Damon’s slave was no more? Matt, well you said yourself in earlier articles what he represented so I don’t have to say it. And obviously there are a lot of witches around (which were introduced nearly as casually as new vamps) so Bonnie is also pretty replaceable in that direction too. Tyler is more important for the metaplot than either three since a werewolf is harder to come by, another reason why I am sure that he will be back. I think this is why the whole Forwood stuff was so emphasized in the show, not because the two would make a good couple or something. Ok, emphasized might be a bit too much since it was only a few episodes.
Sadly if that is the case that would mean that the supporting characters and their development is only important as long as their plotlines serve that of the three main characters and we might never really know what there is between the characters and what isn’t.
“And don’t get me wrong; a physical connection is important, but if it is the defining aspect of a relationship than I doubt it would last long.”
One reason why neither Stefan-Karoline nor Damon-Karoline would have actually lasted, if given the chance. And there is also the question whether there is an actual physical connection in Forwood, because the way I judge Tyler, kissing might be the only way he knows of showing affection to a girl.
“Way back in the episode Haunted in season one, they shared conspiratorial glee about how Caro was going to get drunk until someone was hot enough to make out with – a tiny reference to them sharing the same spirit of fun.”
I doubt that this would be good thing, remember: Tyler’s sense of “fun” wasn’t necessarily fun for the people around him. From what we know his parents weren’t actually good role models in terms of male-female relationships, at least his father definitely wasn’t and you know how it is, some things just rub off even if you don’t want it. Another reason why I think that he would need a girl-friend, not a girlfriend. By the way what you stated is also a trait of friends not necessarily couples.
“In contrast, Tyler and Caroline not only have a special connection forged through their shared experiences of being baby supes, but they have always seemed to “get” each other.”
Like I said “thrown into it” and you usually don’t go through something like that without forming some sort of bond. Tyler was originally portrayed as a dick, and he partly is, but later on also as a more troubled character that is, on a level of emotional maturity, way behind his peers. So a situation like the one he was in is practically guaranteed to break down his emotional walls and leaving him naked in a literal and metaphorical sense. Maybe his “nakedness” after the transformation was a symbol for his broken down barriers (which he later reestablished as we all know), because considered that the wolf is smaller than Tyler (or the weird censorship laws of American TV) the elastic pants could have stayed on. So yes they bonded, especially he did because he is still human and not an actual full-blown asshole as he had previously proven even before the curse-triggering. And someone like him in such a situation is pretty much predestinated to develop a strong emotional attachment to the person who was with him at the time. But whether that would have happened on non-supe ground remains to be seen. That is what would keep a relationship between them going and so far their relationship was determined by the supernatural aspects of it, not really their own personality traits. It’s also unclear whether Caroline really wanted more than friendship or felt more than sorry for him. In some funny way the kiss scene would be like the scene between Matt and Caroline in season 1, you know when she interpreted all sorts of stuff into his behavior and he just stood there with a “what’s going on”-expression. Only this time Tyler would be the go-go-eyed one – he was the “Caroline” and Caroline was the “Matt” in that situation. *rofl* But like I said we don’t know yet and have to wait. Therefore I still go with, “wait and see what comes.”
And I really hope I am wrong with my assumption about the importance of supporting cast.
“No matter how mad he was at Tyler, there was no need to take it out on Caroline, in my opinion.”
No need sure, but that is a very common reaction. After what Tyler did you can expect that the topic is a red flag for Matt. Furthermore I would have told Caroline to give it a rest for a while too.
“Caroline and Tyler also keep it real with each other. For example, Caroline called Tyler on his crap with his inadequate apology to Matt for kissing his Mum, and most amazingly, Tyler took this in his stride, at a time in his character arc when the smallest thing would set him off into a rage.”
The same could be said for Matt and Jeremy depending on the point of time in the seasons. Also Tyler wasn’t that much of an idiot not to know that he had messed-up big time on a topic that was really important to him. So again, I think you interpret too much into something. After all Caroline was Matt’s girlfriend at the time, what else should she have done? Furthermore, she is a girl so what should Tyler have done? Punch her like he did with Jeremy in “Turning Point”.
“Yet I would argue that if they didn’t have the weight of the world on their shoulders with the were/vamp issues, I can’t imagine Caroline ever saying to Tyler that she is bored in his company, judging by the ease of their interactions before everything went to hell.”
Actually I can. What is it that they really have in common? And before all this there was no hint that they ever even considered each other in that way. Tyler’s reaction at the Halloween party doesn’t count; he was never portrayed as a too picky character in that regard, if he intended anything that is.
“but I feel like if they had both remained human, they would still be far more compatible than Matt/Caroline ever were”
Why? Really what was it that would have made them compatible without all the supernatural stuff? Any hobbies? Shared interests? What would it have been?
“the kiss seemed epic in scale when I was watching it because THEY are together as a pairing.”
For me it was just another of this “one likes one who doesn’t like him that way”-moments. Nothing epic or uncommon, totally predictable. So my dark side spoke again. 😉
“I was so very, very deeply moved by Caroline’s care for Tyler during the transformation scene, because this was an act of profound love for a friend, and what’s more was private.”
You said it yourself “for a friend”. So I think that maybe a huge part of his “Forwood” emphasis is simply due to the part that Caroline is a girl not due to her actions per se. Well that and that Tyler isn’t gay according to Kev (as a Buffy watcher I guess you know the phenomenon that bisexuality seemingly doesn’t exist [see Willow Rosenberg who was clearly a bisexual and not a lesbian, as proven by her vampiric counterpart]). Showing emotions is still more accepted for non-straight males, due to its still remaining “unmanly” flair, so it’s a bigger highlight when a straight male does it and there is more that gets interpreted into it. Furthermore every halfway decent person would have acted similar at the side of Tyler during this time (unless that person has a really big problem with seeing or even touching a naked guy).
“I feel like Caroline hasn’t told the others all about what happened because it feels deeply personal”. No offense but I think it’s more likely that the writers simply didn’t bother to tell us. Maybe they will come with that argument of yours later, but currently I don’t think it is the reason.
Again another example of the lack of info towards the supporting characters which we both already lamented about.
” contrast this to her very public, and IMO rather empty, declaration of love to Matt in the karaoke scene”
Many people would disagree that it was empty. Me included. Such a thing takes guts.
“Even if Caroline HAD shouted from the rooftops of the world about what happened with Tyler, the act of being there for someone so unequivocally, especially in shitty circumstances, is, for me at least, much more special than constructing a grand romantic moment.”
Well I agree with that, but special doesn’t equal being in love or romantic. By the way if she had shouted it from the rooftops Forwood would definitely be dead by now.
“made my Ice Eyes tear ducts function for once”
You don’t happen to come from Scandinavia where you had a big Ice-castle and drove a reindeer sleigh and made a habit of steeling boys from their playmates do you? 😀
“Now it just remains to be seen whether Tyler can give Caroline a reciprocal act of love in return.”
Well, like I said I doubt the actual “love”. In my eyes Tyler’s feelings have been barely more than a crush.
“Anything less and any reunion between the two, especially a romantic one, would be hollow to me.” Somehow I think you might need a lot of handkerchiefs.
” I for one will be hanging out to see whether their shared understanding of one another is enough to overcome being from warring species, trust issues and betrayals on both of their sides, through well-intentioned though ultimately damaging lies on Caroline’s part and as a result of confused inaction on Tyler’s.”
I don’t think that this would be a problem. Not considered the nature of the show so far (remember what Damon had done and still Elena seems to be in love with him). By the way I wouldn’t call that “warring”, the vampires clearly have won and although I guess that the “extermination” of the werewolves occurred during the last 600 years theoretically the term “centuries ago” could refer to the time before that. All in all we don’t know anything about their “war”. Of course what is actually weird so far is that Caroline seems to just have gone on after being tortured. Is she good at repressing or did the writers just ignore that?
So much mystery. But hey, that is what keeps the show going.
Now let’s see, what you have in store for us in Part II.
PS. Was the break-up between Matt and Caroline really only a week after the accident (the old pacing problem again)? If yes, that would either really count for “her being cut a little more slack” or it was an example of bad storytelling on part of the writers.
March 31st, 2011 at 6:10 am
Haha! Don’t worry if you’re not a fan of the Damon mixtapes; I’m always at my best when it comes to debates. So don’t worry, my edge will never be fully lost, at least not where Forwood vs Caratt are concerned!
First of all, I bow down to the awesomeness of your comment. Even though I shall henceforth try to dismantle all of your incredibly well-written and thoughtful arguments, I am SO GLAD to have such a worthy sparring partner when it comes to this topic! You help keep the debate from getting too lopsided, although as I mentioned in the post, I’ll also look at what aspects of Forwood DON’T work for me. You see, I can be objective, when I don’t stare to hard at Trevino in T/C-related images. Kinda 😉
T/C definitely have the odds stacked against them. Forget that they are from warring species and their current relationship problems and trust issues… ultimately, even if they can work their s**t out, the issue of Caro’s immortality vs Tyler’s mortality, as with Stefan and Elena, looms high above their relationship. I am curious to find out if being a werewolf slows down the aging process, because there has been no indication of werewolves being immortal in this mythology.
The thing is, most pairings on a show like this are fairly transient. Yes, you have your power couples, like Stelena and Delena, who last over several seasons. Similarly, I think that T/C have seasons worth of mileage in them in terms of dramatic potential if handled effectively by the writers. It doesn’t necessarily mean that they will be all coupled up and happy for all of, or even the majority, of this time. I don’t know about all of you guys, but I love me some unresolved sexual tension and angst, and think that if T/C are reunited too soon it will cheat us out of loaded glances and heated exchanges. So although I will cry a river until Tyler returns, and as much as I love him with Caroline, I don’t want things to be smooth sailing for this pair.
I definitely agree with you that Caratt are incompatible in the long run, and would actually argue they have NEVER been compatible but hooked up out of a shared sense of loneliness, which is not really the basis for a healthy relationship. T/C in comparison first started interacting through shared experiences of being baby supes, which is a subtle distinction. Sure, they both felt lonely, but they have been joined by experiences that have allowed them to relate to one another in ways that Matt/Caroline never really seem to in my eyes.
I don’t want to spoil another post, but I have actually seen so much evidence that M/C aren’t on the same wavelength or interpreting the same situation in the way that both parties have intended, whereas Tyler/Caroline have always seemed to “get” each other. (Daddy Issues/Crying Wolf was of course the exception, though I think this is more a matter of the speed at which information was received and the betrayals felt on both sides, which meant that miscommunications were probably inevitable). We can be joined to people because we are compatible personalities, whether like-minded or opposites attracting, or through experiences that define us, and change us, and can only be truly understood by those who have gone through them with us. Even though I would actually argue they ARE compatible, as seen in the Haunted “I’m gonna get drunk…” “Sounds like a plan” and “I get it” scenes, even if they weren’t compatible previous to going through what they experienced as baby supes, they’ll be bonded forever because of them. It is kind of like how some of my best friends will always be the people who stayed in the same corridor with me during my first year at a residential student college for university. Being newbies and getting used to the culture shock of being at university will tie us together in a way that other people wouldn’t be able to understand.
You argued that Tyler/Caroline’s relationship has been defined by the supernatural elements and wouldn’t exist without this. I certainly agree that they wouldn’t have sparked off a close friendship without an impetus like this, purely based on their superficial perceptions of one another in the past. But, as I stated in this article, I think they have been surprised by how compatible their personalities are as friends, and if they had remained human they would still mesh well, but probably just wouldn’t have had reason to explore this in the first place. Sometimes we can feel like we won’t have anything in common with someone, and be surprised. Yet, in season one, there was evidence of Tyler understanding Caroline’s intentions, appreciating her sense of humour and even caring about her as a friend (just watch his reaction to new at the hospital after the crash that she has internal bleeding).
Just to clarify one point, I didn’t actually mean that Caratt were intended to be seen as the “perfect” couple of the show. I meant that, the characters themselves (though it sounds odd to speak about them like they are living, breathing entities!), particularly Caroline are IMO attracted to the relationship in part because they can play act at the “golden people roles”. The fact that they first hooked up when they were deeply lonely and feeling low self-esteem (Caro “abyss deep or shallow as a kiddie pool; Matt’s family issues left his with feelings of abandonment) is probably part of what made being part of the typical High School Golden Couple (head cheerlead and head jock) so appealing, even if just on a subconscious level.
I think you raise a really interesting point that Matt’s abandonment issues might be part of the reason why he acts the way that he does with Caroline; of course he would be quick to believe that he will be let down by yet another female in his life. I’m sure he has heard “please, Matty” more than enough times in his lifetime.
I also have to disagree with you about being alone perhaps being appealing to Matt. If that is the case, he wouldn’t have dated Caroline in the first place. She was definitely the instigator of their relationship; he was content to just stay as friends and not ruin the comfortable stasis that they had going, if you recall from season one. He said something like “I know you want to go to the next level, but I don’t want to ruin the only good thing in my life right now”. It was only when he was faced with the prospect of losing Caroline altogether, as she felt they had “peaked” as friends and probably would have moved on fully if he hadn’t wanted to become part of a couple due to the ensuring awkwardness.
Hahahaha! The school seems to be lacking faculty – you are so right! Probably because they keep getting eaten by monsters!
Although Matt isn’t necessarily a Golden Boy in terms of having a white picket family set up, I think that he is definitely intended as a GB in other ways. He is popular, the top jock in the school (even though Tyler’s jersey is emblazoned with number one, don’t forget that he was chewed out by Coach Tanner in Friday Night Bites for being useless on the field), used to date the school princess (Elena), is mature, sweet and is even the golden boy in terms of colouring (blond, blue eyes archetype). Though part of what I like about this show is that people who are an archetype in some ways disprove these in others. It keeps things interesting.
Caroline is that rare breed of popular where she is accepted because she is hot, but is on the periphery on the group because she is perceived as being annoying (although this is changing slowly). I think that early on her relationship with Matt was a bit of wish fulfilment for her desire to be the Golden Girl she has always wanted to be. In the pilot, she tells Bonnie how she tries so hard when it comes to the social stuff, yet Elena always seems to win. So again, it is less about her acting being a Golden Girl so much as wanting to be one. A relationship with Matt is almost play acting at being in that position, since despite their mutual “I love yous”, I haven’t actually seen the depth of feeling to back it up while watching the series. Of course, loads of people would beg to differ, I’m sure!
Tehe! Caratt equally “gold fever” of the writers!
You know, I hadn’t thought about it that much before you raised the point, but is Tyler goal oriented or isn’t he? Look at his skill with art. He claims to have not put much effort in (claiming art class was just an “elective” and when Jeremy asks him if he is still drawing a little later on, he responded with “a little, but not much”). However, judging from the Tyler drawing we saw in The Turning Point and Alaric’s faith in Tyler’s ability to do a kickass design for the Founders Day float, I would actually say that no one becomes as good at something like that without a great deal of effort. So is Tyler goal driven in some ways? Or does he go through life pretending to not care even when he clearly does, and is potentially wasting opportunities to capitalise on the talents that he does have? I think it is fair to say though that if anyone had a werewolf transformation impending, that would be dominating their thoughtspace in the lead up to it. He seems fairly self-aware too (“I’m an angry guy” he said to Mason before turning into a wolf, for example).
I agree with you that Tyler is a bit of a blank slate when it comes to his future goals, though apart from Caroline’s expressed interest in broadcast journalism and Elena’s interest in writing, I don’t think characters have really been that focussed on their potential futures, what with the immediate crises they have to deal with.
I think you make an astute point that Matt was kinda going from Elena to “Elena”, I think that Caroline ended up being a replacement Elena for him. But I think that Matt and Tyler only bear a passing resemblance in that they are popular jocks. Considering how toxic I think Matt is for Caroline (more on that in later posts), I really would prefer to think of her as moving from Matt to Tyler, as a conscious decision of moving to a healthier relationship, than Matt to “Matt”.
The look between The House Guest can be interpreted several ways. I guess it can be viewed as Matt not being over Elena, but I will give Caratt a tiny crumb… I think it was more that Elena is one of Matt’s oldest friends even before they were dating, so he was just looking for a little guidance from her about what to do.
I really liked the way that you looked at the Tyler/Matt relationship, and agree that Tyler is incredibly immature, especially compared to Matt. Though, I have a feeling that will change when Tyler comes back. It makes me think that a Tyler/Matt relationship breakdown needs to be done at some point too!
Ohh, Andre, you slash me with your words “I know some people will hate me for it but so far she (Caroline) hasn’t really done much for him (Tyler) in my eyes”. Well, the girl did kind of risk her life to be in a dank cellar with a creature while it was transforming into a form where its bite would be lethal to her. She did so without telling Tyler beforehand about the personal risks to her, so that he wouldn’t feel guilty about her being there, even though much of the scenes showed him scared for her safety anyway. She held him during a transformation that was obviously emotionally wrenching for her to witness, given the way she broke down in tears when she left the cellar when he had fully wolfed out. She held him afterwards, probably for hours, though of course we cut away from the scene and will never be sure. She provided emotional and moral support to him in the lead up to the transformation, even though she knew that interacting him could be perceived by the guy she was in love with could view it as her secretly hooking up with his best friend.
On the other hand, Caroline closed the door in Tyler’s face when he was on the precipice of either staying on her side or turning to a potentially darker one with the other wolves. Her reasons were understandable, and I love that this scene broke with Bad Boy Woobie conventions in a big way. Nevertheless, she lied to Tyler, and I feel she hasn’t been held accountable for this in the way that should have been.
It’s definitely true that Caroline and Tyler were given ample screentime this season because they personalised the werewolf/vampire conflict in our regular cast. Nevertheless, Matt and Caroline were given equal or perhaps even slightly more screentime in the first season and early season two, yet I feel like we still had a lack of small moments. Their time has generally been spent making up, breaking up or giving speeches to one another about their relationship. Season one gave me speech exhaustion, because I view big speeches as I do grand romantic gestures – something that would be unnecessary if the relationship was really strong.
I like to think of it as happy serendipity that the T/C pairing just happened to be a lightning in a bottle connection, where the producers/writers may not have anticipated just how well they would work together, as I obviously think that they do. Even if they were only intended as a fleeting pairing to begin with, I think that viewer response might change this. I like the fact that Forwood have been able to make such a big impact in just a few episodes!
“Sadly if that is the case that would mean that the supporting characters and their development is only important as long as their plotlines serve that of the three main characters and we might never really know what there is between the characters and what isn’t.”
God, I seriously hope not, although there has definitely been evidence of that with Bonnie, Jeremy and Matt in particular this season. Caroline and Tyler have been linked to the A plot but also have had their own little B plot of preparing for and experiencing the transformation, so I feel like they’ve avoided this so far. Hopefully this doesn’t change too much in coming seasons. I hope that Caroline becomes a tentpole female character like Elena or Katherine in season three.
You know I love Tyler like no other on this show. I would actually say that you are being generous when saying that kissing might be the only way he knows how to show affection for a girl. I think that apart from Caro and maybe Vicki on occasion, he has been terrible at showing affection for a girl through kissing! Quite often in the past he’d kiss a girl on the neck in what he obviously hoped would be a pre-cursor to sex, with little emphasis on any emotional intimacy. Part of what I love about his arc with Caroline is that for the first time, he has started discovering how to show affection for a girl. Ironically, having a girl as a friend was what led him to the first emotional kiss we have ever seen from him. Although he has since made HUGE mistakes that he needs to make amends for, I have no doubt that the way he views Caroline is poles apart to the way he treated girls in the past. For that reason, I would be curious to see how they would handle an actual sex scene with Tyler – animalistic and passionate or softer and sweeter?
Believe me, I will be the first to admit that Tyler’s idea of fun was not always palatable. I guess I just meant that the Haunted scene shows that both Tyler and Caroline, when being playful and good-spirited, are actually more alike than you would think. I attribute his most unsavoury actions to his latent werewolf gene, particularly because we have been shown how he can lose himself entirely to this horrible, dark self that he has. It doesn’t excuse his actions, though – you always have some agency, even if there is a supernatural creature buried within you, in my opinion. What I admire about Tyler is that he stated his desire to change and “not be like this anymore” at the start of season two, and we’ve indeed witnessed a gradual change in him for the better.
Heh. The reason why his elastic pants couldn’t stay on is for our viewing pleasure, plain and simple. Would you have wanted to be denied the pleasure of him flashing his gorgeous body? 😉
Even though I mentioned that Tyler and Caroline keep it real for each other, believe me when I say that I never intended for that to mean that Caro is the only person who is like this with Tyler. Matt definitely is assertive rather than aggressive with Tyler, and I actually really adore his bromance with Tyler, which makes my deep antipathy for his pairing and treatment of Caroline all the more striking for me. Jeremy and Tyler have kept it real so much I even coined the phrase Bad Touch after them 😉
Even though obviously he wouldn’t punch Caro, although he wasn’t above physically menacing her in Rose or pushing her violently against a car in Daddy Issues, what I meant was that Tyler didn’t get as defensive with Caro as he would other people. Like when she told him off about his inadequate apology towards Matt about his Mom, he didn’t get angry, annoyed or snarky with her, he just accepted that what she was saying was completely fair.
What do Caroline/tyler have in common? Well, a whole blog post could be written, but things like family issues, feelings of inadequacy (Caroline is pretty self-evident in this department, but it is also there with Tyler, like Coach Tanner screaming at him “is there anything you are good at?” – Tyler’s reaction indicated to me that his father has definitely made him feel worthless in the past), party animal spirit, desire to be at the top of the social hierarchy, school/community event involvement etc etc. I mean, when I date people I don’t necessarily have to tick every box on their likes and dislikes (e.g. they don’t have to be a lover of Vampire Diaries, though that is a plus if they do!), but they do have to have an understanding of where I am coming from and shared values.
Oh, Andre, how it pains me that you don’t like the Forwood kiss. C’mon, it was hot! I strongly disagree with you that it was a kiss shared between “one likes one who doesn’t like him that way”. Caroline definitely kissed him back and seemed way more into it than the kiss with Matt earlier in the episode. I think she was resisting her attraction at that point because of residual feelings for Matt, but also more importantly, because she is still clinging onto her humanity as represented by Matt. Once she chooses Tyler, it is like she is choosing the supernatural aspects of her life to win out, so it is a big step.
I think that a lot of halfway decent people, if risking their life by being in a cellar with a creature that could kill them, would actually be reluctant to be there in the first place and wouldn’t have stayed as long as Caroline did, especially with tyler’s insistence several times that she leave. Caro has a very giving heart, and although she takes it for granted that people would help out their friends in the same way, I think that in a dangerous circumstance in real life, as opposed to a TV drama where real lives aren’t at risk, a person probably would think twice before doing what Caro did for Tyler.
I stand by saying that her public declaration of love was empty. Not in the sense that she doesn’t have feelings for matt, because she clearly does. But, remember, as I noted, I am completely unmoved by big public declarations of feelings because to me talk is cheap. I am far more moved by acts of love done in private or without an audience. You shouldn’t need the presence of other people to witness your acts of love to validate your feelings, and shouldn’t need to convince a loved one through a public forum that you love them. But that is just me. I know there are romantics out there who would totally disagree with me.
*searches family history for Scandinavian ancestors*
Yup, the break up was within a week (I think even a few days) of the car accident.
Final word… I actually would have been happy with Forwood just as friends. But I would be lying if, after that kiss, that I am not hoping for much, much more!
April 1st, 2011 at 5:58 pm
Well, the Salvatores are not really interesting in my eyes and neither is Elena. And we shall see how successful you will be with your dismantling. 😉
Ok, I will try to keep it as short as possible; otherwise we will soon need our own board for this. 😀
I’m not sure if we will ever know anymore of the specifics of the “werewolf”-condition in this show. So far it’s debatable if they are anything more than just a device to get things rolling and it is called TVD after all. And let’s face it; the curse will not be broken soon since the writers definitely won’t kill Elena so early in the show so I doubt that the current wolf-status will change in foreseeable future. Maybe we will know something about their “society “(if there are enough left to form such a thing that is) but that is as far as it will go in my eyes since the show centers pretty much on Mystic Falls.
And the show has the same feature I often noticed back in Buffy. This comment of what an older Jeremy said in some fanfic covers it pretty well in my eyes: “Seriously if any vampire would have ever been smart enough to just burn down our houses we would all have been dead long ago.”
I have my doubts whether supporting cast couples will ever be handled effectively. Again: a reason why I think that the writers and producers loose potential by not having novels for the show (apart from the few released on the Salvatores). With that you could cover a lot and present info for those people who want to know more.
As for your “T and C always get each other”, I understand what you say but like I said I think this is not very much. But considered the pacing of the show you might very well be right. And yes they could be compatible, but of course we didn’t see very much of Tyler on a day to day basis as opposed to Caroline so it is hard to guess what will be coming. But whether they would ever be a couple, especially in the long run is something I seriously doubt. I guess a solid friendship is the pairing that would have the most potential in my eyes. First because it wouldn’t be so cliché since we already have enough romantic couples. In addition we don’t yet know what an effect Tyler’s new condition has on him. In the case of Caroline you could say that the vampire in her is “just” an addition to her personality. In Tyler’s case it seems as though his has a more or less separate personality in him and if those two would actually blend together (which would be an explanation for Stevies and Brady’s behavior) any friendship or romance between him and Caroline would be out of question. But that would fall under the info about werewolf-condition and although it would definitely be a plus for the show, currently I don’t see that we will be represented with anything soon. Maybe some bits here and there but nothing too detailed. Waste of acting talent if you ask me.
I wasn’t surprised that Tyler felt guilty after the accident since he clearly thought it to be his fault. And if Caroline actually thought she could play, as you called it, “the golden people roles” (Matt definitely didn’t see it in that way) with Matt that would really speak for an immature character, because as I said earlier Matt is pretty unsuitable for this since his family status is definitely known in town.
You talk about Matt not wanting to be lonely, but maybe we both see it to one-sided and possibly these two “arguments” warred within Matt. But maybe the writers simply didn’t think too deep, but since I am pretty moderate in that regard, except for Jyler smutt that is ;), I thankfully don’t get a headache from this.
About the faculty: you gotta admit it is pretty weird. Normally Tyler and Jeremy would have landed in detention already.
By the way, the way you keep it with the “I think they have been surprised by how compatible their personalities are as friends”, maybe you will get some new Jyler stuff in Season 3. Come on I know you want to 😉
That the characters are so focused on the immediate crisis and the fact that we know next to nothing about their past makes me, again, question what the future of the show will be.
I advise you to be cautious, since as to yet it is still open to debate whether a relationship with Tyler would be healthier than one with Matt, as we currently know next to nothing about how being a werewolf affects him. Tyler leaving with Jules might also have nothing to do with Caroline since it would be logical to go with another werewolf after the whole carnage and because she might have ways to deal with the condition he doesn’t have. Of course, considered all things so far, going with Jules might have been the worst mistake ever in his life.
Possible that being a werewolf will change Tyler for the worse. As to yet it seemingly was for the better but it’s rather unlikely that such constant pain makes a person good, it will rather make them desperate. So even if so little time passes in the show it is also a good possibility that he comes back with serious emotional scars; at least it would be consistent with the speed of the show.
Yes Caroline was in the cellar with Tyler; but remember her strength and speed, she could have gotten out of there pretty fast if she wanted to and she already knew that it would take a while for Tyler to transform. And like a said every half-way decent person would have acted the same and since Caroline had possibilities a normal human doesn’t have she would have been able to take more risks. (You know sometimes it is weird that we are talking about roles as though they are actual living beings :D, but then again I find that it keeps my head fresh to think in new ways).
” Nevertheless, she lied to Tyler, and I feel she hasn’t been held accountable for this in the way that should have been.”
That is something we again agree on. I hope something will happen in that regard, otherwise it would prove in my eyes that the supporting characters are only portrayed as long as they actively serve the metaplot.
Concerning screen time of Caratt and Forwood, I meant in relation. Considered how long Caratt was featured as a couple, there was next to nothing shown and barely any depth, it really was a pretty shallow coverage (like Bonnie and Jeremy at the moment) and if you ask me not really in sync with both characters. And Forewood, the whole stuff was only for about 6-7 episodes but got plenty of depth and coverage.
“Caroline and Tyler have been linked to the A plot but also have had their own little B plot of preparing for and experiencing the transformation, so I feel like they’ve avoided this so far.”
Maybe, but remember we don’t know what the writers plan. I hope they don’t come up with “Charlotte Petrova” (something mentioned in some article by Julie). I mean you gotta admit. Katherine was turned in 1492 so how de fuck did Klaus knew about some Aztec curse? Weird stuff don’t you think? 😀
Actually the more you write about and argue for Forewood the more I think they would rather end as a very strong friendship.
As for a possible sex scene: hard to tell right know. Like I wrote elsewhere, Tyler’s condition is not really something to embrace. The wolf in him is not an actual wolf like in the film with Jack Nicholson but rather seems to be an “actual” European middle age werewolf, meaning a rabid and bloodthirsty beast programmed on destroying everything that moves. So while it might be written that way for the show, I don’t think that his beast side would change in him in that regard and make him more animalistic”. If at all he might be terrified about losing control.
And I think for him you would need a partner that would actually challenge him and I am not sure whether Caroline is currently such a character.
By the way passionate and soft/sweet are not antagonists. I think you mean rough and not passionate.
I think this “more alike than you think” is a feature of more than just Caroline and Tyler in the show. So far that is true for Tyler and Jeremy, Stefan and Damon and maybe even Elena and Katherine.
“I attribute his most unsavoury actions to his latent werewolf gene, particularly because we have been shown how he can lose himself entirely to this horrible, dark self that he has.”
Sorry, I think that’s mostly him. The werewolf in him is more about open attacks and pure rabid aggression (it’s not really anger because anger is a reaction and not a character trait). That Tyler is angry so much is more a reaction to his insecurities, maybe he is actually angry at himself.
“What I admire about Tyler is that he stated his desire to change and “not be like this anymore” at the start of season two, and we’ve indeed witnessed a gradual change in him for the better.”
Actually this would be a “good” starting point for a downward spiral. Good from a dramatically point of view I mean, to keep people watching.
“Would you have wanted to be denied the pleasure of him flashing his gorgeous body?”
No, but the writers don’t necessarily think that way. And remember what happened simply because we “saw” Janet Jackson’s pierced nipple a few years back? US-American censorship laws are weird, in my country you can see an exposed nipple in films rated age 12 and above.
“Like when she told him off about his inadequate apology towards Matt about his Mom, he didn’t get angry, annoyed or snarky with her, he just accepted that what she was saying was completely fair.”
And neither did he when Jeremy confirmed his statement that Tyler’s dad was a dick, although he clearly seemed hurt. And neither did he got rabid when Matt accused of being a twelve year old bully. So again, I think you interpret too much into their interactions prior to the Masquerade ball.
” desire to be at the top of the social hierarchy”
” Oh, Andre, how it pains me that you don’t like the Forwood kiss. C’mon, it was hot!”
Nope; not for me. 😉 Sure Caroline kissed him back but who hasn’t ever been caught up in the motions?
“Once she chooses Tyler, it is like she is choosing the supernatural aspects of her life to win out, so it is a big step.”
Maybe, but will it be the right step? So far the vamps on TVD define themselves in relation to humanity. So far we haven’t seen or heard of any vampire who doesn’t. And come on, do you think TVD won’t be without its tragic love affair?
“I think that a lot of halfway decent people, if risking their life by being in a cellar with a creature that could kill them, would actually be reluctant to be there in the first place and wouldn’t have stayed as long as Caroline did, especially with tyler’s insistence several times that she leave.”
Remember, she is very strong and fast.
“Caro has a very giving heart, and although she takes it for granted that people would help out their friends in the same way, I think that in a dangerous circumstance in real life, as opposed to a TV drama where real lives aren’t at risk, a person probably would think twice before doing what Caro did for Tyler.”
I think I would be stupid enough to do the same thing, especially as a TVD vamp.
” I am far more moved by acts of love done in private or without an audience…. *searches family history for Scandinavian ancestors*”
Search for some Pre-Pomeranian ones too (not the dog breed, the federal country). We Pre-Pomeranians are “accused” of having the same trait that we rather act that talk. 😀
” Yup, the break up was within a week (I think even a few days) of the car accident.”
April 2nd, 2011 at 3:16 pm
Hey hun 🙂
Epic FAIL on my side. I promised to comment way earlier and I’ve no idea why I didn’t do it…. Forgive me?
First off, you know I’m a Forwood Unicorn Lover and we’ve talked about it a few times already, but it’s great to see you reasoning out exactly what you like about them/why you prefer them instead of Caratt. (Shall we go back to Cyler btw? 😉 Considering that Michael likes it more?!)
Yeah, Trevino(&Candice) is a hottie – and we shouldn’t forget about that – but you’re right, there’s more to Forwood than that.
I loved how Candice sang in that ep, but I couldn’t really enjoy it cuz it was such a “I have to proof that I like him, so I just do something he doesn’t expect and make sure everyone sees it”-moment (cute as it was) that just made me question her feelings harder.
She never needed to point out that she likes Tyler, cuz you could see that in her actions. I have to point to the transformation again(just like you did). It was touching, it moved me and it showed me more love than her singing to Matt.
I haven’t read the other comments, so I might be repeating something, but anyway.
So, I don’t know how to feel about Matt being involved in the supernatural thing that’s going on in Mystic Falls. I’ve always considered him a “talker”, so I wasn’t surprised to see him talk to Caroline’s mom in the promo – and if he tells her she has a vampire daughter, I might just say “I told you so.”
Of course I can understand that he’s confused and he’s putting that piece of information into those weird things that he noticed going on – but why can’t he idk talk to Caroline? Or maybe even Elena? (btw, I think he’s still not over her yet!)
I, too, like those little bonding moments of Forwood more than all these bigger ones from Caratt. There’s no point in talking about/defending a relationship more than actually having one. The question between Caratt isn’t “What do we do tonight?”(or something like that) but “Are we having a relationship?And do we want that?” – and if you really need all those gestures, it might be because you shouldn’t have that relationship at all.
Love you, and sorry for that super-late comment!
April 9th, 2011 at 7:29 pm
Awww, *hugs*! Hun, only ever comment when you have the time to. I’ve been running a little low on time lately and not quite been able to keep up with my earlier blogging pace for a little while, so I completely understand.
I’m gonna stick with loving the name Forwood because it has such a positive connotation to it (“For” part of Forwood). Plus, if I claimed that I liked Cyler best originally, people would just roll their eyes and think I changed my mind in light of what Trevino said.
I connected to Matt/Caroline when they were both feeling lonely and cuddled together in bed, I’ll admit, but I never thought that the relationship was healthy and founded in mutual respect but more a shared sense of abandonment. I feel like Caroline projected all of her hopes and dreams for the perfect life onto Matt, and is having a hard time letting go of him because not only does it represent losing a vestige of her human life but also acknowledging that she isn’t going to get the happily ever after that she wants from Matt… or perhaps ever, because as a vampire she is an inherently tragic figure.
Things like the karaoke scene just really feel like Caroline trying to convince herself that she feels a particular way about Matt, rather than actually really doing so. She and Tyler have always been able to talk, and even when they had the fight that ended their friendship in Crying Wolf, could be honest about their emotions. Compare this to the pre-karaoke scenes where Caroline can’t form the words to tell Matt how she feels in the hallway at school when he confronts her about this. Or to the fact that she doesn’t really clarify her feelings in the speech prior to the song or really even through the song. Matt and Caro have both talked about loving one another, but I’ve never felt like they just “get” each other or on the same emotional wavelength.
Sometimes I wonder if Caroline thinks that if she doesn’t feel jittery and slightly self-conscious around someone than it is only friendship and not potentially love. I mean, she was so kickass with Tyler when they were friends and similarly isn’t the slightest bit self-conscious around Stefan, and as a result has infinitely more equal friendships with them that I could easily see blossoming into more further down the track. With Matt everything is harder than it should be with someone who accepts you for who you are, but I wonder if some part of her thinks love should be difficult or the person should make you feel slightly nervous, or otherwise there is nothing there beyond friendship.
Love you too, little SEster!